Is it time for the Valley to ditch 传联? Would it lead to better regional transportation?

牧场卡通

马丁·克里里’s report on 传联 came as no surprise, 传联 is in deep financial trouble 和 needs a major infusion of cash to keep it in operation. The question should be asked: “应当?Ai ?? Ai?Valley市政府Ai ?? Ai ?? A要离开运输公司,并让碎屑掉到可能的地方?”

传联, despite all the revisionist history, was cobbled together 通过 then GVRD Chairman George Puil 和 the Glen Clark 全国发展计划 as a last ditch attempt to secure a SkyTrain Millennium Line. The icing on the cake for Mr. Puil was 那 the province would pay two thirds of 仅SkyTrain施工 West of Commercial Drive. Translation: Puil secured an agreement for expensive subway construction on 滚球’的西侧以牺牲该地区为代价。

Now fast forward to 2009, the RAV/Canada Line, the first of 滚球’所需的地铁已经开通;通往三城市的常绿线处于严重的危险之中;越来越多关于40亿美元的Ai ?? Ai ?? 不列颠哥伦比亚大学地铁或 ‘Campbell Line’. 传联 needs vast sums of taxpayer’s money to complete its pie-in-the-sky metro 和 subway planning, which now may come in the form of road pricing or congestion charges. Again, Greater 滚球 politicians see 弗雷泽谷Ai??Ai??taxpayers as a ‘milch-cow’,Ai??Ai??or rusticAi??Ai??rubes with deep pockets to pay for 滚球’宏伟的地铁计划。

滚球’政客和规划师们都在为桥梁收费和道路定价调情;麻烦的是,只有在有可行的公共交通替代方案,公交车不是可行的公共交通替代方案,三条截短的地铁线路都不可行的情况下,道路收费和/或交通拥堵收费才会成功。但是有人怀疑我们的公民政治家会牺牲他们的政治事业来倡导公路通行费还是桥梁通行费,对于省级同行来说也可以这样说,尤其是当人们看到艾·艾·艾·英政治家发生了什么事时’在英国支持公路定价的。

山谷铁路等项目’s ‘城市间的回归’ 需要资金,但除非有‘‘ ditches 传联 和 forms its own tax base to fund its own 过境 projects. Let 滚球, Burnaby, New Westminster 和 Richmond taxpayers fund expensive SkyTrain or RAV Ai??Ai??metro 和 let the 谷 taxpayer fund much cheaper light-rail. I would wager 那 the Tri-Cities would abandon the SkyTrain Evergreen line in a shot, if they were offered (or should I say their taxpayers were offered) much cheaper light 轨 projects.

用于区域交通规划的TransLink模型被打破,TransLink’s的计划者陷于1950年,计划建造更多的地铁和昂贵的地铁系统。汽车必须保持畅通的道路,‘rubber on asphalt’运输计划至高无上。受省政府的教the‘roads lobby’兴高采烈地迫使新的地铁建设对地区纳税人产生影响,并为弗雷泽河谷市长抵制TransLink和省政府并说“Enough is 恩 ough, we are leaving 传联 和 forming out own Valley Transportation Authority, investing in 过境 projects 那 meet our needs.”

Let 滚球 taxpayers pay for expensiveAi??Ai??subway projects forced upon them 通过 ex-Vancouver mayors!

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无回应 “Is it time for the Valley to ditch 传联? Would it lead to better regional transportation?”
  1. 从44看 说:

    事实的重点: Puil secured an agreement for expensive subway construction on 滚球’的西侧以牺牲该地区为代价。

    滚球’s west side 星ts at Main St. Before the Canada Line, there exactly four Skytrain stations west of Main, but they were all downtown. The Canada Line gave the west side its first Skytrain.

    Zweisystemreplies: you are being far too picky, Puil was 展望 the future, for an extension of the Millennium Line to Arbutus St. A subsequent 过境 研究 put the cost of on-street 轻轨 at about $50 million/km. 和 subway was about $150 million/km.; under the 全国发展计划 传联 agreement, the agency would pay $50 million or less per km. for 轻轨 with the province picking up the rest of the tab. Thus for the cost of “TransLink’s 轻轨”,这个城市可以搭地铁!

    海外运输专家嘲笑拟议的百老汇轻轨作为“stuff 和 nonsense”, but 过境 planners in 滚球 held it as gospel.

    这就是今天的原因’s posting, 传联 is to far mired in the 滚球’s anti-LRT political/planning nonsense to be of any use for the 弗雷泽谷 和 it maybe high time to ditch 传联! Just think of 滚球 residents paying their fair share of subway construction; 那 will cause a revolution in 过境 planning.

  2. 从44看 说:

    I’m not sure it’太挑剔,无法区分“looking into” 和 “actually building”,因为前者基本上是免费提供的,并且政客和计划者可以根据需要做很多事情。对于试图在周三8:30上UBC的学生来说,这种区别无疑是非常真实的。

    但是,我对您的帖子的主旨持观点。一世’我们将不得不思考一下您的问题,即是否可以由自己的交通规划机构更好地服务于硅谷。一方面,让Translink放弃对Valley的责任将使其工作变得非常容易。由于硅谷的密度低于弗雷泽(Fraser)北部,因此Translink将失去部分税基,但也将放弃 很多 土地。使区域成为Translink’负责平均密度更高的s可以使其工作轻松得多。

    但是如果我正确理解你的观点,你’再次提出,硅谷将拥有足够大的税基来支付良好的轻轨网络费用。它’s a good question.

    Zweisystemreplies: In 短短几年, 萨里 will have a greater population than 滚球, in fact the Valley may have a larger tax base than 滚球/Burnaby/New West/Richmond.

  3. 吉姆 说:

    我喜欢你’说,但是山谷确实有它’s own 过境 system, Valley Max, it 星ts at the 恩 d of Metro 滚球, 和 it hasn’没建其他东西,然后从我所知道的公交车站…不过,至少我们不是’支付轻轨和Translink…但是,如果要与其他弗雷泽河谷市镇一起加入,我’d猜测东部和北部(任务)最终将主要为萨里的过境发展支付费用。看到所有市政人员聚集在一起并真正过境真是太好了…

  4. 大卫 说:

    I have a perhaps more realistic question: would Campbell allow the 谷 to walk away from 传联?

    我感到,与萨里或兰利被允许离开相比,要求阿伯茨福德加入TransLink的立法更加接近现实。坎贝尔根本不惧怕在山谷流失选票。沃利可能已经失去的,而是由山崩凯文猎鹰再次当选。在广泛的基础上重复出现南三角洲的局势将是一个奇迹,尤其是当结果将是新民主党的政府时。在许多骑术中,对于基层运动来说,对国家发展计划的恐惧实在太多了,以至于无法吸引人。

    吉姆指出,山谷过境的重点将是萨里,而我可以’t see people in 阿伯兹福德 being any happier about funding 轨 in 萨里 than they would be about funding 轨 in Coquitlam.

    Zweisystemreplies: If it was unanimous decision 通过 谷 mayors, Campbell would have one hell of a fight on his hands. It’s all about perception 和 if Valley politicians conveyed the message to their electorate 那 their tax money was being spent on politically prestigious metro projects in 滚球 instead of much cheaper light 轨, the political fallout would badly effect the Liberals. In Delta South, the largely Liberal electorate defeated a ‘star’自由派候选人。在政治上,任何事情都可能发生。

    通过Fraser Valley的LRT选项,Abbotsford纳税人将资助Abbotsford 轻轨。

  5. 从44看 说:

    Zweisystem– I “just a few years”对萨里很乐观’s population to overtake 滚球’,但单独考虑的人口和税基是’t what’s important. What’s important is the ratio of taxpayers to land 那 needs public 过境 (however we 恩 d up wanting to measure 那). And 滚球’密度是萨里的四倍以上。例如,这意味着’在每15分钟一趟的公交车上,步行10分钟即可轻松到达城市中几乎每个人的位置。

    Zweisystemreplies: Quote: “例如,这意味着’在每15分钟一趟的公交车上,步行10分钟即可轻松到达城市中几乎每个人的位置。 ” This is an absolutely meaningless statistic, dreamed up 通过 传联 to further bamboozle politicians. Buses do not attract ridership, especially buses 那 run every 15 minutes.

    这里的逻辑要点:如果可以以SkyTrain或RAV成本的1/4建造LRT,那么您的密度问题就变得毫无意义了。我们已经有30年的SkyTrain大厅将轻轨建设成本膨胀到如此之高的水平’t want 传联 any where near the project!

  6. 从44看 说:

    Zweisystem— I’我很确定Translink没有’尽管他们的十年计划确实采用了“频繁运输网络”这一想法作为目标,但他们提出了这个想法。而且要明确的是,’公交网络每15分钟一班。您’肯定会的’吸引车手。相反,这个想法是一个网络,其中所有路由— regardless of mode — run 至少 最快每15分钟一次。因此,网络中最慢,最不频繁的公交车在周日晚上11:30每15分钟运行一次。在星期一的早晨,一切运行得更加频繁。

    但更重要的是,我知道轻轨比轻地铁便宜很多(这就是为什么我认为轻轨在该地区的许多地方都是一个好主意)。但这不’确实与以下事实无关:一个地区越密集,公交需要覆盖的里程越少,您可以花更多的钱来增加频率— of buses light 轨.

    Zweisystem回复:回到基础。修建轻轨是因为当公交路线上每个方向的乘车人次超过每小时2,000人时(与之相对应,电车的门槛更低,每个方向每小时约400人),它的运营成本比公交车便宜。每个方向每小时超过15,000人。当然有重叠。密度是一个有争议的问题,因为您可以拥有所需的所有密度,但是如果公交系统没有’不要去人们想去的地方,他们不会使用它。

    大约在将皇家橡树轻轨站附近的工业用地重新划分为高密度房屋的区域时,骑士街桥变成了一天中几乎南北交通流量相等的桥梁。即使SkyTrain为高密度的房屋开发提供服务,但工作仍在里士满和Fraser / Delta,需要通勤。即使RAV启用,它仍然可以!

  7. 从44看 说:

    Zweisystem—很抱歉继续回覆您,但我想确定一下’正确地获取您的视图。你说:

    Density is a man of straw argument because you can have all the density you want but if the 过境 system doesn’不要去人们想去的地方,他们不会使用它。

    您是说人们可以选择按自己的意愿居住在低密度社区中,然后,根据各个走廊上的客流量,城市应该在人们购买房屋的地方建造公共汽车,轻轨或地铁房屋?和 那’s 公共交通如何获得乘客?

    Zweisystemreplies: the density issue has been vastly overplayed in the region. Has anyone ever stated what density is needed for ‘rail’过境?否,原因很简单,没有准确的密度度量可以转换为运输用途。人口密度的真正问题是房地产的分区,以借口为土地所有者带来暴利。“我们需要更高的密度来证明快速公交建设的合理性。”

    In fact in Europe, light 轨 has been used to control densities, providing cost effective ‘rail’防止敏感区域过度致密的运输!

    如果过境满足了消费者的需求,那么消费者将使用过境;当过境使用达到一定程度时,轻轨更具成本效益,并且如果每天的乘车量达到40万人或更多,便会建造一条地铁。
    如果有人说,“We don’具有快速运输的密度。” You should ask, “那么快速运输需要什么密度。” I’没有人会回答。

  8. 纳税人 说:

    Of course, again, you are totally wrong, something which you excel at. If you actually bothered to look at the plans, you would realize 那 the 不列颠哥伦比亚大学 Line is not scheduled to be completed until 2020, meaning 那 the increased funding 那 那 传联 needs over the next few years will not be funding 那 project.

    唐’t forget 那 $1.2 billion extension of the SkyTrain in 萨里 is also in the Transit Plan. This could be used for light 轨 instead.

    You conveniently forgot 那 the first SkyTrain Line was built to serve people who live in the 谷 那 commute to Burnaby 和 滚球. One billion of the 过境 plan is for more SkyTrain cars, which people from the Valley will use. Two billion is for Expo Line upgrades which again will benefit people from the 谷.

    There will also be significant improvements in bus service in the 谷 as well. I suspect if you really did your homework, you would realize 那 especially with the investments in roads made 通过 传联 和 the province in the Valley, 那 the Valley is actually receiving more than its fair share of transportation dollars.

    Zweisystem答复:SkyTrain大厅喜欢扭曲事实并歪曲事实以适应自己的目的。 SkyTrain是与安大略省的比尔·戴维斯(Bill Davis)保守党政府达成一项严厉的政治协议,以确保当时著名的“Blue Machine,帮助Bill Bennett赢得下届政治选举。安大略省必须从省政府拥有的UTDC处出售一部不可出售的ALRT(更名为ICTS)轻型地铁。对于计划的LRT到Lougheed购物中心,Whally和Richmond Centre的相同费用,我们将ALRT送到了新威斯敏斯特。这项耗资10亿美元的升级对弗雷泽河谷的居民无济于事,对萨里的12亿美元扩建也无济于事。

    For the cost of the SkyTrain upgrade; Evergreen line, 和 萨里 SkyTrain extension (about $3.5 billion), we could build a deluxe 滚球 to 奇利瓦克 interurban; new Fraser River Rail Bridge, stand alone 轻轨 lines in the Tri-cities, 萨里, 阿伯兹福德, including a connection to YXX; 和 电车s to Whiterock, Richmond 和 North Delta.

    纳税人,我建议您读一本有关该主题的书,因为您走得太远了。

  9. 吉姆 说:

    引用大卫,“I get the feeling 那 legislation requiring 阿伯兹福德 to join 传联 is closer to reality than 萨里 or Langley being permitted to leave. ”

    我不’看不到这种情况,所以Abbotsford市长和市议会的立场是他们不想成为Translink的一部分,我认为这里的大多数居民都会支持他们…

    我认为让Abbotsford加入Translink是个好主意的人是兰利的人,他们说我们’再挖一次,Abbotsford挖洞,这样您就可以少挖一点我们… I doubt the people in 滚球 even think about where a 很多 of the money comes from.

    Zweisystemreplies: Quote: “I doubt the people in 滚球 even think about where a 很多 of the money comes from.”如果要关闭钱水龙头,他们会的!

  10. 大卫 说:

    Some of us in 滚球 have interest in this subject 和 know full well 那 we wouldn’有3条地铁线,而住得太远而无法充分利用它们的人们却没有太多帮助。

    鉴于TransLink的财务状况很糟糕,省政府下令进行审查,而且目前情况不佳,即使GC现在提起这个话题,也要给它时间,这将是非常困难的。危机的解决方案将使坏消息从主流媒体中消失。然后可以向阿伯茨福德承诺高速公路的升级(市长肯定比LRT更喜欢高速公路)和and,以前称为TransLink的组织为该党增加了另一个城市。 GC没有’在不懂政治的情况下成为三届总理。

  11. 吉姆 说:

    我敢打赌,这是真的!,您应该竞选办公室,让您正确完成计划。

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